“Plainclothes” (Magnolia), the directorial debut by queer filmmaker and screenwriter Carmen Emmi, is not as simple as the title might suggest. There is also a double-meaning at play as neither of the main characters – Lucas (Tom Blyth) and Andrew (out actor Russell Tovey) – is dressed in their respective “uniforms” when they first meet.
Already “certified fresh” on rottentomatoes.com, “Plainclothes” features such stellar performances by Tovey and Blyth, that it’s likely to be the movie that will not only make the actors bigger stars than they already are, but also earn them well-deserved Oscar nominations. Blyth and Tovey kindly made time for a Zoom interview shortly before the film was released in theaters.
Russell and Tom, I’d like to begin by asking each of you to say a few words about what attracted you to the roles of Andrew and Lucas, respectively, in “Plainclothes.”
Tom Blyth: Lucas, for me, is someone who's going through immense difficulty and is facing up to some self-truths. I'm always drawn to characters who are trying to understand themselves in a serious, deep way. Probably because I'm doing that as well. I come at this from a psychological standpoint, so I think I’m drawn to a character who is going through psychological turmoil. And the script is absolutely beautiful. That was my main draw.
Russell Tovey: I second that the script is beautiful. For me, dialogue connects me straight away to a character. When I started reading Andrew, I was like, “Oh, yeah, I want to say these lines.” I wanted to do a film in Syracuse. I thought Syracuse sounded like a beautiful, wonderful paradise. Parts of it are like paradise, and other parts, not so much. But it was a great experience. It's new writing and a new director. It always feels so exciting when you get a script like this. These don't happen all the time. So, it was an easy yes.
I’m glad you mentioned that because “Plainclothes” is the feature-length directorial debut for Carmen Emmi, who also wrote the screenplay. What are the advantages of working with a first-time filmmaker for an actor?
RT: I don't know if it's an advantage, but you feel the excitement. You feel a responsibility, I guess, to be your best for them. You want them to have the best experience ever. In the way that Andrew wants Lucas to have the best experience ever in this film, with his first time with someone, with a gay man, with a man. We, as actors, want to make sure that Carmen wants to continue working after we finish his film, for sure. You've got someone who is so excited and so full of gratitude. He’s experimental. That's what's so shocking about the way that Carmen made this film. I had no idea what was going on when we first started. When he pulled the camcorder out, when he was doing certain shots. I was like, “I don't understand this,” but it was so intoxicating working with him on his first film. What he does next and where his trajectory is going is so brilliant.
TB: There's a bravery in a first-time filmmaker, I've noticed, that is simultaneously bravery and anxiety. They know what they want to do, and they're working from instinct because they've not been told no too many times by producers, or financiers, or whatever it may be.
RT: They’re not jaded yet.
TB: They’ve not gotten the outside critiques which filmmakers throughout their careers get. There's this bravery of, “I'm just gonna enact my vision.” Then there's this anxiety because it’s their first big film. That anxiety feels collaborative because they don't think they know it all, and they lean on everyone else as much as they lean on their own vision. So, it creates this incredible mix of boldness and collaboration, which you don't always get.
“Plainclothes” is set in 1997, almost 30 years ago, at a time before Grindr and other hook-up apps, when there were limited options available to gay men for casual interactions. Do either of you find it shocking to think about how much things have changed and advanced in 30 years?
RT: Thirty years is basically Tom's whole life.
TB: [Laughs]
RT: The world just gets faster and faster, doesn't it? I mean, what can you do? It is shocking for so many other things, that it's terrifying at the speed of the way that everything's going. I miss CDs. I miss them. You can quote me on that. The way that queer people, or anybody, can find connections with people online now is fascinating and brilliant and terrifying and rewarding and depressing, and all of those feelings completely. But there's something romantic about the way that these guys meet that feels furtive and dangerous. That's the situation that so many people were in. There weren’t safe spaces created for people, so they were pushed to the margins, and they ended up in dangerous situations. This is a very dangerous situation, but through this place of adversity and danger, something beautiful grows.
TB: Russell and I have both talked about this recently. I do think we have this feeling, even more so this year than last year when we were making this film, that it is more necessary than ever because it does feel like we’re moving backwards at the moment, politically and socially. I don't think we even knew a year ago, when we were making it, how much a year later it would feel like the wheel of time is going backwards. I'm very proud to be able to champion this film, right now especially.
Thank you for saying that, Tom. “Plainclothes” also reminded me of how police departments have changed in their attitudes towards gay men. From entrapping them in restrooms to, at least here in the States, actively recruiting them to join the force.
TB: I don’t know much about police policies, to be honest with you. I would be lying if I said I did. I did a lot of research on them in the ‘90s, but it's probably very different to now. Around the conversation of representation and policing, how can you expect people who are supposed to be bastions or representatives of a community, as a whole, without representation from that community? I don't understand the people who think that you could have a small minority of white, lower-middle-class to working-class men, policing everybody else. They won't be able to always have the empathy needed to police a community. I think that's why we run into trouble in policing. I think the idea that there should be representation in policing is integral.
The thrill and risk of sex in a public place, whether a mall men’s room or a greenhouse, gives “Plainclothes” a distinctive eroticism. The scene in the greenhouse was especially touching. Can you both please comment on that?
RT: Well, it was hot. And we're playing that it's cold outside, so we’re bundled up in layers. Not much sex goes on in the bathrooms because everyone seems to be caught, or it's very momentarily sexy and fraught, and then it ends. So, for our characters to have that time where we can be free – it's not a bed, it's not a house, it's not domestic – it is still somewhere that's furtive. But for us to have that moment where we can close the door and be free with each other is so beautiful. Someone said the other day that when they watched it, that when you go into the greenhouse all the flowers feel like “The Wizard of Oz.” It goes into Technicolor. Before that, everything's gray and muted, and that door opens and you've got all of this sort of Oz. This beautiful world where they exist and they're amongst flowers and foliage and botanicals, and it's historical. That's so true! I'm sure Carmen's considered that, because one of his favorite films is “The Wizard of Oz.” That is such a beautiful way to turn the story, and that is the truth of that scene. These guys are finally in their utopia.
“Plainclothes” is set in upstate New York which meant that you both had to master not only an American accent, but also a regional one.
TB: I would never claim to have mastered anything because I’d be shooting myself in the foot. But we had a really great dialect coach called Sam Lilja. It’s a small-budget film, so we didn't get a ton of time with Sam, but the time we did get was really valuable. I’ve been lucky enough to live in the States for the past nine years, so I often don't know what my actual voice is anymore, which I think is helpful. It makes me able to pretend to be other people.
RT: I’ve worked and lived in the States for many years. I spend a lot of time, when I go to the States, just speaking in the accent until someone British from home spots me, and they call me a freak. I will go into like diners or restaurants or stores and talk in an American accent so that it just becomes second nature. That felt important. I think the Syracuse accent…it's not typically what we know as the Bronx, New York, or Queens accent. It's more neutral, but there are twangs. A lot of the cast and crew, Carmen especially, were from Syracuse. So that noise you need is around you all the time. If it had been a British crew, it might have been a little harder to stay on in that sound. But I think we both were able to tune into it because everyone around us was talking in it.
TB: I think Russell and I also work in a similar way, which is that we stay in it on set when we need to and then are able to jump out if we need to go back to zero and reset, as well, and have a funny moment. It's nice when you work with someone who has a similar sensibility to you and isn't too constricted and has to stay in it all the time or never wants to stay in it. It was nice to be able to play off each other like that.
The scenes throughout the movie with Lucas and his family are highly charged and reach their peak in the film’s final moments, while the scene where Andrew’s family appears at his place of work is also emotionally devastating. Can you say something about how you prepare for those kinds of scenes?
RT: You just get in the zone. The crew and the cast were incredibly professional and respectful, and liked actors. Sometimes you work at jobs, and you feel like they don't like actors [laughs], which isn’t helpful. Across the board, everybody wanted this to be a beautiful experience, and it was. When we needed that time, it was available to us. I think Carmen was very sure of that. Carmen did something amazing, which I’ve tried to take onto every job since, is that he plays music into scenes. We all know what that feels like, when you're on public transport or in the back of a car and a song comes on and you can sort of imagine this make-believe, Hollywood ending of your life. Music is a kind of fast hack into emotions, and I think that that made a massive difference for me.
TB: That scene, in particular, was really intense. I remember that day being really intense. I remember leaving the scene feeling dissatisfied and feeling like I hadn't done it right. I think that's because that’s how Lucas feels. Carmen said that to me. He could sense that I was beating myself up about how the scene had gone. He was like, “Why would you be feeling good about it when Lucas is feeling bad?” Lucas goes there to profess his love for a man for the first time, that he truly does love, and he basically is told to grow up, that he’s being with unrealistic, because Andrew has his own life and he's shown up there inappropriately to interrupt his life. He's put Andrew’s life and his family in jeopardy. Andrew’s protecting himself and his family, and so Lucas is incredibly angry at himself, and Andrew, and disappointed and confused. I think I felt confused and disappointed and sad, which is sometimes how it goes. You put yourself fully in the circumstances of the scene, even if that doesn't make you feel like you're doing it right.
Photo credit for Russell Tovey: Gary Kirk, Wikimedia Commons.
